Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard McKeever on March 16, 2012 at 11:50

Whilst I am not a big fan of dogs as pets in urban settings, and I get as annoyed as anyone about inconsiderate dog owners  - the blame may be misplaced ... the culprit here may be one of the many local foxes - who don't have people tagging along behind clearing up after them!

Dogs - and their owners - may be falsely accused as a result.

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Permalink Reply by N S on March 16, 2012 at 13:01

I agree with Grant.

I know the committee and members do an awful lot of fabulous work for us  locally, but some attitudes regarding dogs and the emails sent round about how local people should be thinking and acting about dogs, verges on autocratic and scaremongery. I think the association goes beyond its remit and I have written to Haringey about it.

That park belongs to ALL of us. I have had more problems from kids being inappropriately intimate on the benches, condoms found by the bushes, gangs forming late at night, and Im too scared to go to to FG even with my dogs. I think there are drugs being sold by these gangs.

I see kids leaving rubbish on the ground when there are bins.

I see it being used as a creche in the summer.

All these things are not mentioned as a problem.

The truth is most dog owners are responsible and do pick up poo and keep control of their dogs, being respectful to others wishes. Some famously do not and it ruins it for all of us.

But it is not fair to ban the majority for the crimes of the minority.

Dont we still live in a democracy?

If you start this intolerant route, then  one could start complaining about groups of disrespectful children running around when others want a peaceful rest. Where does it end?

it is about tolerance and an understanding that we all like different things.

I think those from the association that scaremonger locals about banning dogs should really think again.

Maybe it would be better to encourage the enforcement of the laws we do have at present. For eg, how many fines has Haringey given for dog fouling and not picking up poo? It would be interesting to ask them. Maybe they should consider better enforcement. 

And why not check that dogs have tags on their collars so that the owner can be identified and contacted. This is also the law.

These are 2 easy things that could be implemented to encourage responsible dog ownership and identify and punish the culprits who aren't. Whilst leaving those that are responsible free to enjoy the local facilities that they have equal right to.

Also, telling children to approach strangers with dogs about picking up poo is ridiculous, near dangerous.

Ive tried it myself in FG and been almost attacked. There is a certain type that wont obey any rule even if you ban dogs there.

This needs more consideration, and less knee jerk reaction.

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Permalink Reply by Grant Corr on March 16, 2012 at 15:07

Well put Nicola. I think that's right, my concern is that considerate, responsible dog walkers are being harrassed and victimised by a group of people who want to run Finsbury Gardens their way and only permit what 'they' consider to be appropriate through the gates. No one like dog poo lying around and as Nicola said it can be quite intimidating confronting the law breakers,. I have actually saw kids using the raised flower beds as a play pit kicking up the plants etc and I didn't feel I could say anything. Yes why not make sure there are ample bins and the police monitor and approach who picks up poo. Lets share the gardens and work together.

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Permalink Reply by Kate Franzmann on March 23, 2012 at 18:16

As one of the people who regularly care for Finsbury Gardens and a dog owner who excercises the dog twice a day I am confused by the reluctance of dog owners to excercise their dogs on the open green land around where we live and leave a  very small area , Finsbury Gardens, for the enjoyment of children.  Many dog walkers already go to Nightingale Gardens and Alexandra Palace.  Some are responsible and some are not.  However, even the responsible owner occasionally miss the odd poo.  Particularly in the winter if walking the dog in the dark.  These all add up and cause distress and unpleasantness.  Finsbury Gardens already has a sign put up by the Council stating that all dogs should be on leads.  A measure that was introduced to try and make owners aware of their dogs behaviour. 

A group of locals , and not so locals, meet once a month to keep the gardens pleasant.  We meet on the first Sunday of the Month for a couple of hours gardening.  2 oclock in the Gardens.  Perhaps some of the people who own dogs and appear to believe dogs have the same rights as children to open spaces would feel differently if they joined us on a clear-up sessions and became aware of how nasty it is to be on the grass and having constantly to watch where you are walking to avoid the poo.

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Permalink Reply by N S on March 24, 2012 at 1:42

For everyone that lives around the garden, we all have an equal right to enjoy it. Finsbury should not be for the use of children only. That is a terrible infringement.
For those that work in the garden, we are grateful, but you do it because you choose to.
It doesn't give anyone any moral high ground to decide its future.

With regard to the sign saying dogs on leads. It had no legal authority and therefore wasn't enforceable. It was designed by the committee, the same individuals who are trying to control it now.

I reiterate, rather than isolate local people, we should be bringing everyone together and encouraging respect and tolerance of our differences.

This is not a good message for community values, and is an aspect of the BPCA that I'm not proud.

Please think again about how we can improve the situation without exclusion.

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Permalink Reply by Kate Franzmann on March 24, 2012 at 12:19

I am sorry you feel that putting children before dogs is an' infringement'. 

The main reason for trying to improve  the gardens was to encourage more people to use it. To give young mothers somewhere to meet and give the children somewhere safe to play.  Children provide no health hazard and any I have met i the Gardens are well behaved and polite.  Older people often like to be near the young and The Gardens are a good way of encouraging this social interaction.

When I first moved here the playground was almost unusable and few people used Finsbury Gardens apart from dogs and their owners.  Over the years there here have been questionnaires, consultations, more questionnaires as to what improvements were wanted by local residents.  Before us was another Garden Group who had got worn out by the process and were glad for some others to take over. 

The whole basis of the lottery grant was about improving the facilities for all those who use the gardens and those who look onto it.  We have had questionnaires, meetings open to all, stands at community events, more questionnaires  The majority of complaints we received were regarding owners letting their dogs foul the grass and others about unruly dogs off the lead frightening other dogs and children.

For many years Bowes Park Community Association worked tirelessly to bring people together.  One group started the Community Gardens and delivered a wonderful asset from a bit of scrub land.  These gardens are dog free and no-one really seems to mind.  We dog-owners sometimes have to face the truth that not everyone loves our dogs as we do.  And often with good reason.  We would love someone to come up with a solution!  We have been racking our brains for years. 

Please , dog owners and non dog owners, tell us the solution!

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