Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dave McNeill on November 18, 2010 at 20:51

I'm not sure whether your road is in Enfield or Haringey. My current residence and my last have both been Haringey and I have to say that I strongly dislike the way that CPZ has been implemented in that particular borough.

Here's what they do: they create a CPZ in an area like Wood Green High Road - you know, around Shopping City, say, to make shoppers from outside the area use the multi-storeys. They include peripheral residential streets because they get clogged up with the same shoppers otherwise. All good, so far - no-one in Noel Park wants a parking nightmare and I won't deny the benefits that Shopping City brings.

Thing is, people who live in, or know well, the area, know the extent of the CPZ, so they park just outside if they do not qualify for a residents permit. Not much of a problem, since Shopping City is a fairly small area compared with the whole of the borough; plenty of space for everyone. Haringey, however, starts to see the revenue from permits and, more objectionably, from parking fines in the CPZ as a valuable source of revenue and of course the CPZ extends. Before long, a significant part of the borough is CPZ.

I used to live in the Scotch Estate, on Saxon Road. This is about 15 minutes walk from Shopping City - too far for out-of-town shoppers, although useful parking resource for local people and their friends/family. The only problem with parking was when people insisted on placing stolen orange cones outside their house to reserve 'their' space. I was usually able to park within a short walk of my house. That road is now in the Wood Green 'Outer' CPZ. As a result, neighbours in Sandford Avenue (not yet in the CPZ) to whom I have spoken recently have found their parking squeezed. Probably just a matter of time before they find themselves in a CPZ too, since parking is now at a premium. (I visited Saxon Road just the other evening, by the way, and it was less than 50% parked.)

Enfield doesn't seem to have this problem. Try this: walk from the Ranelagh pub, down Warwick Road and see where the CPZ stops.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ed Balleny on November 19, 2010 at 10:03

I appreciate what you are saying. It is of course a not in my back yard syndrome that becomes viral and as you say it just spreads. However to be fair to Haringey I believe they were pushed by the local residents here to get CPZ rather than forcing it on us. They consulted with residents on our road before the local CPZ came in and there were a lot of objections and a campaign against it. They therefore did not put it in at that point. I didn't live in the road at the time but lived round the corner and I voted for the CPZ there which came in. I cannot understand those people who voted against it because despite any misgivings about Haringey's intentions in bringing in the CPZ, the overflow was always going to happen.

I think the fact that roads are in the CPZ and are only 50% used just goes to show how many people a) live in the road but object to paying for a CPZ permit or b) were commuters or for whatever reason do not qualify for a CPZ permit. I think when people see a road next to theirs with this level of parking, it can only encourage them to want a CPZ and be able to enjoy parking near their house instead of fighting for spaces with those people displaced by the CPZ.

Either way it is not a perfect system but when you are suffering because of it all you want is for it to go away.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dave McNeill on November 19, 2010 at 12:20

I guess the people who voted against are, like me, fundamentally opposed to Haringey's tax-by-stealth approach. It is not an issue of residents' ability to park near there home (believe it or not, I do understand you situation; being realistic, I accept that your road needs CPZ and, under these circumstances, I think that you are right to want CPZ).

Generally, I'd be happier and more supportive if the following were true:

1) A permit to park in Haringey gave you the right to park *anywhere* in Haringey, not just your own area (or parking ghetto, as I like to think of it). If we accept that, as residents, we should have precedence to park near to where we live over people who, say, come into the borough for shopping or for commuting, then surely it is true that I am still 'more local' when I drop my kids somewhere local or go shopping locally.

2) Parking enforcement staff should be trained to be reasonable about innocent or minor infractions. When the motive is revenue generation, then clearly staff are going to be incentivised to issue as many penalties as they can. This is what we see in practice.

3) Penalties should be commensurate with the offence. My wife was penalized for accidentally scratching off the wrong hour on a visitor's permit. She was parked properly in a marked area, not causing an obstruction, yet he car was towed away. Why was a clamp not used in this case? I believe this was because the towing brings a heavier fine. Why, under appeal, was the fact that this was an honest mistake not given any consideration? No benefit-of-the-doubt was applied.

You probably can tell from that last point that I have a bit of an axe to grind, but I don't think I'm alone here. What does anyone else think? Do we have any Haringey Council members on here? Perhaps you could add a bit of balance to my (obviously biased) view of your dishonest, insidious attitude towards the parking freedoms of your constituents.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Richard McKeever on November 19, 2010 at 14:34

In an earlier exchange on this site, about Enfield's proposal to introduce a CPZ, similar points were made about "Back Door" or "stealth" taxes from parking fees and fines. Both boroughs have a responsibility to manage traffic and parking and, it seems, choose to do it through an approach to fees and fines which result in the imperfect situation discussed here, leading to criticism of greedy councils getting more of our money. Far better in my view, rather than just using a "market mechanism" to price people out of parking locally would be a wider consideration of the issues including the density of local housing and maybe including a "nudge" for people to make better use of the extensive public transport we are lucky enough to enjoy. However this approach is probably beyond the scope of any individual local authority

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dave McNeill on November 19, 2010 at 15:02

Couldn't agree more about public transport in Haringey (ahhh, the W3 :)). The roads are still pretty good for us cyclists, too (try cycling in Camden Borough if you doubt this).

I suspect Small Government Big Society means that the kind of creative thinking to which you allude will be way beyond the council going forward.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Irene Barker on November 20, 2010 at 8:56

I live in Whittington Road and we have had a two hour parking restriction in force for over two years. It is effective from 10am to 12 am monday to friday. It is a great success during this time but when it is over, all the cars from Myddleton Rd, where all day parking is in force all day, park in our road. This means that it is nearly impossible to park in Whittington Road in the afternoon and early evening. If it is possible to amend the parking hours I would opt for all day restriction. I hope Marlborough Road do not go for two hours!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Judy on November 20, 2010 at 16:27

I have lived half a mile from Wood Green tube for over 20 years and until the last few years have had no trouble parking. But now my road is the first from the station not included in the resident parking scheme and if I now leave my home during the day I either have to circle for as much as 20 mins waiting for a space or park several streets away. I am against all parking restrictions unless they are essential for stopping blockages. My way of thinking is this: if you live near a tube station you will find it difficult to park but will have excellent transport facilities. If you live some distance the reverse is true. I now do not live near a tube not can I park. This war of attrition by the council is very effective. Soon people in my roads will be clammering to pay the council money just so they can park - and the problem will move to the next batch of roads. It is just a cynical money-making machine for the council and should be outlawed. In fact it is legally questionable anyway as parking restrictions are supposed to be used only where there is a genuine necessity and not to 'correct' a problem which has been entirely created by the council.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Administrator on November 22, 2010 at 12:05

There is a public meeting arranged for tomorrow evening, 23rd. 7:00pm at Bowes School with Enfield Councillors Yasemin Brett, Alan Sitkin and Acchileas Georgiou.

Although the meeting was called to discuss the Warwick Road 20MPH Zone, the Bowes Councillors Blog is also inviting people to discuss the Bounds Green Tube CPZ.

• ▶ Reply