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Permalink Reply by Caroline Simpson on January 1, 2020 at 13:03

I live on the bend of Whittington not far from the Bounds Green Road junction.  When it was possible to turn right out of Whittington there were daily traffic jams, lots of horn hooting and arguments that often ended in threatening fights between drivers etc.  The closure of this turn was the best thing that has happened to traffic in the area, and it would be truly shocking if it was changed. It took a lot of work to get this improvement, and I would campaign strongly against your suggestion.  

And as to Enfield traffic management - thank goodness i live in Haringey.  Many of the new arrangements they have put in place in Palmers Green are crazy and downright dangerous.  So please think again Bernadette

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Permalink Reply by Caroline Simpson on January 1, 2020 at 15:05

Gosh, you have lived here a long time, Bernadette, and must have seen a great deal of changes.

No... I do not drive, but have pals who do.

Where do you live?  Then we could perhaps advise your quickest route.

And a Happy New Year to you too.

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Permalink Reply by Cathy Herman on January 1, 2020 at 14:35

Once thing that we learned during the years that it took to achieve traffic calming in the area was that  it requires a system approach not bits and pieces. The no right turn at the top of Whittington works because it was part of an area strategy. Before the changes roads were congested with traffic jams-traffic nor moving at all-static vehicles pumping out high levels of pollution. Jams started as early as 5/6am. Road rage was an everyday event. Massive lorries were directed through the area and got stuck on the tight corners. Police were called out to intervene in fights. Yes fights! Road rage everyday.

So, please review your position on this. One thing we need to do is to try to stop people sitting in their vehicles with their engines running. That helps to decrease pollution. Also, the pedestrianisation of Myddleton Road-with delivery schedules built in-which has been suggested would be really good.

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Permalink Reply by Kate Franzmann on January 2, 2020 at 17:15

HI Bernadette

Like Caroline I was involved with the road changes when they were implemented some years ago.  It was a long and tortuous process because if you look at the map of the area it becomes clear that there are many ways into Bounds Green but very few roads take you out to Bounds Green Road.  The changes, as Caroline said, were partly to help the residents of Whittingdon access the road from their drives, cut down on the constant arguments that occurred with increasing frequency and ferocity and also to make Whittingdon, Truro, Clarence and Nightingale have a balanced flow of traffic.  It would have been easy to make changes which moved the traffic flow of cars from one street into their neighbours roads, but took quite a lot of thought and help from the council to come up the the current plan which works for most local people whether pedestrians or car owners.  I

If you want to get to Gordon Road from Whittington then your best bet is to go by Truro or Clarence.  Doesn't take long.

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Permalink Reply by Caroline Simpson on January 5, 2020 at 19:22

Dear Bernadette,

While I do not want this to turn into some sort of on-line argument, I do feel that it is important to say that it was NOT my brainchild, or of other individuals on Whittington, that cars no longer turn right out of Whittington - it was part of a very large and well thought-out and well consulted scheme from TfL and Haringey and Enfield councils for a much larger area.  Traffic calming/management does not only effect drivers, but pedestrians, cyclists and local residents, and the consultations were lengthy and considered. 

The fact that I do not have a car, and do not drive, does not invalidate my opinion on the beneficial effects of the present scheme, I walk a lot locally and live on this road and I would indeed give my opinion in any future traffic management consultation.

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Permalink Reply by Deirdre Stowell-Smith on January 5, 2020 at 20:19

Hello All,

I live on Whittington Road and just wanted to reiterate how hellish the traffic was when we moved here in 2005, both in terms of the horrible behaviour and the pollution.

I wasn't involved but I was aware that many people from different streets put a lot of work into coming up with a solution that would improve things without having a really bad knock-on effect somewhere else - a really difficult thing to achieve and it really did take years.  

I don't drive and my husband does (by the way, as a resident/pedestrian I think my opinion is as important as his) and we agree that the slight inconvenience of turning right at the top of the road is a small price to pay for an area that isn't polluted and clogged with traffic.  

I am concerned that people might not be aware of, or might have forgotten how long it took to sort this out.  I also agree with Cathy that drivers running their engines and pumping out fumes is something that needs to be addressed.

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Permalink Reply by Deirdre Stowell-Smith on January 5, 2020 at 21:04

Yes things have changed ten years down the line but if anything there's more traffic now than then and things would be worse.  

I am sorry because I didn't mean to sound as if I was ignoring your suggestion.  I don't think anyone else is either.  My point really was that numerous options were looked at over many years and I'm sure your two-pronged approach was one of them.

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Permalink Reply by Liz Bell on January 5, 2020 at 21:37

Hi Bernadette,

Thanks for posting this, it's an interesting discussion! I have a few points to add.  I'm not sure if I qualify as an 'upwardly mobile' youngster as I am approaching 40 (eek), but I do have a small baby.  I drive, but I also walk around the area a lot now and I'm obviously very conscious of air pollution having a buggy at pretty much exhaust height.  I have lived here for nearly 9 years and I think the population is getting a lot younger, but I don't have any data to back that up - perhaps it just depends on your vantage point! :)

Overall, I think this is a very complicated issue and requires a lot of compromise. I live near Caroline at the Bounds Green end of Whittington Road. There are already some issues on the bend with parked cars, poor visibility and drivers coming round too fast. I suspect the parking would have to be removed to allow a right turn to function properly, and residents parking is already quite limited.  If it wasn't removed, a right turn would cause a quite significant build-up of traffic on Whittington Road and the increased pollution would be horrible.  Regardless of whether you drive yourself, nobody wants more fumes coming into their bedroom and it would make a pleasant quiet-ish road a very different place to live.

I'm interested in your other suggestion as well.  I have no experience of living at the other end of Whittington Road, so I don't know if the current set-up causes problems. But are you suggesting closing off the Whittington/Palmerston and Palmerston/A406 junctions completely?  What then happens for residents who want to access the A406 eastbound?  Recently that Palmerston/A406 junction has been closed, and it's caused big queues on Kelvin Avenue which can't be great for those residents.  Green Lanes certainly doesn't need any more congestion either.

I don't believe things should be put in place and then left forever - I think it's good to review them periodically and check everything still makes sense.  But this really does have to be looked at, and modelled, as a whole area.  There probably isn't a perfect solution, but personally I think what we have now is probably the best one.

Finally in answer to your question about how best to go north on Bounds Green Road, my usual route is to turn left out of Whittington and then do a U-turn in Imperial Road. It's marginally quicker than wiggling through Thorold and round to Clarence.

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