Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Deirdre Stowell-Smith on September 15, 2020 at 20:35

It's unreasonable for one group of people to take all the pain on behalf of everyone.  We've already learnt from previous traffic negotiations that this process needs serious, detailed consultation between representatives of the different areas. 

It's inevitable that if traffic is being directed away from one area, it will land in another so this needs to be managed very carefully.  

Whittington Road suddenly feels like a much busier place so I dread to think how it feels to live on Clarence Road and Truro Road, where I've now witnessed back to back traffic queues in the mornings to get onto an already jammed Bounds Green Road. 

So, that's great that people in Bowes are enjoying the bliss but I'm afraid it's at great cost to their neighbours in Bowes Park.  Ignoring the impact on your near neighbours is not the most constructive way for Enfield Council or the residents of Bowes to proceed.  

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Kitching on September 16, 2020 at 19:44

Quite right. Data shows Warwick Road and Brownlow Rd were 'taking the pain on behalf of everyone'. Residents have spent years campaigning, spent endless hours of their own time and have done something about it, good on them I say. Campaigners reached out to a residents' association in Bowes Park to discuss what was being proposed. Haringey has put in a bid for an LTN - do you wish to campaign for an area solution? Incidentally I've observed traffic on Bounds Green Rd to be free flowing in both directions every morning this week (and Brownlow and A406).

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Permalink Reply by Kate Franzmann on September 18, 2020 at 19:16

Can you add Nightingale Road to your list please?

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Permalink Reply by Moshana Khan on September 21, 2020 at 9:40

Hi, so I haven’t driven down Warwick road for a while - and there has been massive change in the area.. I needed to access Evesham Road - so I drove down where The Ranelagh Pub is / after I had driven through - a local resident stopped me to tell me that I’m going to get an £80 fine. It is a route I’ve used my whole life.
The traffic was absolutely chocca along the A406 and Bounds Green.
Surely they should put a gate there too? I’ve lived in this area for 30+ years. Does that mean that the only way to access the area is through Brownlow and out onto the A406 via Highworth. I needed to go back the other way / so found myself having to turn left to then go through Wilmer way to take me all the way round so I could easily access the A10. Are these new measures something that everyone is happy with? And is it even legal how it was suddenly put up.

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Permalink Reply by Andy Forbes on September 21, 2020 at 14:26

I have received a response from Haringey - Danny Gayle
Team Manager Traffic Engineering Projects
Very polite but basically saying any changes have to be funded by TFL and there is no money in the pot
Any investments are currently being made only in social distancing awareness
This bought to mind the question of where Enfield is sourcing money and why are they choosing now to experiment?

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Kitching on September 21, 2020 at 21:19

I hope this response is helpful and that I have followed the thread properly. The introduction of a Low Traffic Neighbourhood in Bowes has been Enfield Council policy since mid-2019 following a years-long campaign by residents and Enfield's analysis of the traffic issues facing the area. In the wake of COVID-19 the government made funding available for street-space schemes that would improve quality of life for local people. This is because the government foresaw that COVID-19 would change behaviour and reduce use of public transport, meaning more people would use their cars. This has become a fact, the data for London shows a significant increase in traffic and car use because fewer people are using the tube and the bus, for example. LBEnfield rightly saw that Bowes, having been blighted by through-traffic for years due to its situation on a corner of the North Circular, would become a victim to the increased traffic levels. It applied for the funding that the government had made available for precisely this circumstance and was successful; it already had ideas on the table after listening to residents' concerns. The funding (which is £100,000.00) has come from Department for Transport and has enabled LBEnfield to bring forward its plan for Bowes and to consult residents in parallel with a trial of the measures. Haringey has, in response, declared its own intention to implement an LTN. Residents should engage as they have an opportunity to make hugely beneficial changes.

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Permalink Reply by Andy Forbes on September 22, 2020 at 9:13

Interesting points Matthew, thank you for shedding some light on the Enfield process
I hope that my comments were not interpreted as 'Enfield bashing' they were intended to prompt a share of information.
The problem for our residents is often exasperated by the fact that the two councils do not appear to coordinate their activities and what is plainly obvious is that working in isolation has negative impacts.
I spent quite some time making a proposal for the Truro/Nightingale rat runs and currently, can report that Haringey has no plan or funding for this part of our neighbourhood
I believe it is their LTN2 which has not been published so cannot be responded to.
Clearly the current scheme being tested is causing mayhem and as resident

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Permalink Reply by Kate Franzmann on September 22, 2020 at 14:05

There are four road which carry all the traffic that is travelling from East to West in the morning and West to East in the afternoon.  The traffic we are experiencing is not local people moving short distances but others travelling to work.  It starts at 6.0am at the moment and increases till about 8.30 then dies back at 9.) They could be made one way, in which I suspect the traffic might pass through a little quicker but would probably be more dangerous and increase journey time to any local at the wrong end of the system.  But Bounds Green Road is the sticking point at the moment as it is jammed so traffic is slow to get clear Nightingale, Truro and Clarence.  

The problem can really only be solved by TFL.  They need to sort our the North Circ..  Banning the right hand turn from Bounds Green Road onto the North Circ has made matters worse..  Closing Brownlow would be disastrous.

This morning, like other mornings,  cars were static on Nightingale at 8.0 in the morning.  We increasingly get large lorries which should not be travelling along out streets at all and skips which make all the houses shake as they go over the bumps.

We do need an area solution. I suggest we require the BPCA to - at the very least  - contact its members and the wider community to see if there is a consensus view as to a way forward.  I have asked for this but they seem reluctant to do this in which case we need a coming together of all concerned and some sort of solution hammered out.  We will never be traffic free we live in a Capital City where people move about for work and things are particularly bad at the moment as people are reasonably cautious about taking public transport

Removing the right turn from Whittingdon will increase the traffic  on that road and cutting it off will increase the traffic on other roads.  (Clarence, Truro and Nightingale).  Counting it won't make much of a difference we know the problem it is solutions we are short of!  And that is where TFL needs to come in.

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Permalink Reply by Liz Bell on September 22, 2020 at 15:40

Hi Bernadette, I've been having a similar conversation on Facebook this morning and also with Caroline. I live at the top of Whittington near that junction, although I wasn't around when this restriction was put in. I have been wondering the same thing after hearing about the problems Clarence/Truro/Nightingale are currently having. It doesn't seem equal at all.

I think it's a very interesting idea to close Whittington at the other end and then remove the right hand turn. Cars can still come through from Palmerston via Thorold Road though, and Thorold are already having a lot of issues with cars coming the other way. Only this morning someone came down there at speed and managed to hit three parked cars. 

There was a suggestion somewhere that a filter be put in on Myddleton Road as well, so the only way in and out of Whittington and Marlborough Road was via Whittington onto Bounds Green Road. Similar filters would be added to stop the other roads being rat runs. Residents would also have to go down Bounds Green Road and Green Lanes to access the A406.  I have no idea if this is the sort of thing Haringey are considering as part of their LTN, but I'd be really interested to see the details.

I think if that happened, the right turn from Whittington could be reinstated as the traffic levels would be much lower.

In terms of counting - I wasn't quite sure what Kate was referring to, but we have actually installed a little traffic meter which shows the number of vehicles going past our house on Whittington.  We have data from before the Enfield LTN was implemented so hopefully it should show any trends. I'll find a link to the numbers in case anyone is interested.

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Permalink Reply by Caroline Simpson on September 24, 2020 at 12:05

I am sorry... but there is no way that I would support the removal of the No Right Turn out of Whittington.  Just because Enfield has done something unplanned and stupid does not mean that Haringey should return to a scheme which was both fume filled and dangerous - with drivers grabbing tools to hit each other in the morning traffic jams.

I believe that other people living at this end of Whittington would agree with me.

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Kitching on August 21, 2021 at 20:19

Bernadette, please access the consultation using the following link: https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/travel/transpo...

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Permalink Reply by Emma Killick on September 23, 2020 at 20:57

Haringey now has a very thorough page on their website about this: https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/travel/transpo...

 

It explains that Haringey is waiting to hear about funding for their Bounds Green LTN and should hear by the end of this month, that they will be doing a full consultation with all residents, and that they plan to implement Phases 1 and 2 at the same time, subject to funding. They do not have any details of their proposals because they are waiting to consult with residents.

 

They also include an email address so you can express your views: transport.planning@haringey.gov.uk

 

The Bounds Green Councillor who attended the Myddleton Road Market stall last month was Dr. James Chiriyankandath. I have been in regular contact with him. He’s very responsive (about this and all matters) and encourages residents to get in touch with him. His email and phone number are on the Haringey website.

 

As you can see from just the comments on this site, let alone all the other social media and other activity, there is no consensus about a way forward. The BPCA will continue to fund any proposals or actions that would help to ensure that residents of Bowes Park (and our neighbours) are fully informed about proposals, give residents a chance to be heard, and aid in making this a democratic process.

 

Collecting factual information about changes to the traffic patterns on your roads (numbers, types of vehicles, photos of problems, etc.) are fully encouraged and if needed we can help to collate all this information and try and ensure that it is provided to – and acknowledged by – the decision makers in this process as a cohesive and impressive collection of information.

 

Feel free to get in touch with me at info@bowespark.org.uk

 

Emma

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